Home entertainment

7 January 2009

Freeview/HDD recorder nightmare!

Freeview Here’s a letter from a member in despair:

"I purchased a new Sony TV with a built-in Freeview HD tuner, and a matching HDD (hard disk drive) recorder. Unfortunately after several weeks of trying I have not yet successfully recorded anything!

I have finally been told by the shop (who have been relatively supportive and helpful) that it is not possible to record in digital  unless I stay on the channel I am recording, which in my view is useless and defies the point of a recorder! Alternatively I can record in analogue which gives poor quality and is not easy to programme.

I am told that this lack of flexibility is due to the nature of the Freeview system. I don't know if this is true, perhaps you could shed some light on this? I would really like consumers to be informed of this issue. I spent about $2500 on my system and I'm so disappointed!"

Digital limitations

Yes - it is a nightmare! The Freeview digital system and Sky digital both dump some rather major limits onto us consumers which means, as the old song (sort of) went, "you can’t always record what you want". It’s not really the fault of either Sky or Freeview, as they are working with limits set by others.

The first limit is your normal HDD recorder can’t record in high definition (HD) or even in true digital format. Provided your TV has the right video-out connections, your HDD recorder can record Freeview in analogue standard definition (SD) at significantly better quality than a VCR, but that’s all. No doubt Hi-Def HDD-DVD recorders are coming, but ever so slowly.

Because the Freeview HD tuner lives in the TV, it’s only possible to record the channel the TV is showing at the time. If the TV is off it won’t record. A number of other readers have complained about this. There are solutions of course - at a price.

Freeview has announced a HDD Digital TV Recorder (DTR) called  Myfreeview|HD - available in stores since December 11.  Like mySkyHDi, it is possible to record in HD onto the built-in HDD, to watch one channel while recording two others, and to record while the TV is off because myfreeview|HD has two onboard tuners. At the $1150 launch price Myfreeview|HD ain’t cheap, but at least there’s no $15 monthly fee which is how you pay for mySkyHDi.
 
But there is one more technical problem for would-be recorders: it’s called HDCP. This is an encryption process invented by the movie industry to prevent unauthorised copying of movies. All high definition devices that connect via an HDMI cable have HDCP software. And HDMI is the standard cable for transmitting HD from one device to another. So, if it’s an HDCP protected movie or programme, it can’t be recorded. Well, not quite ...


You can record - within limits

You can be allowed to record movies, within limits, as Sky does with its On Demand, pay movie service. On Demand movies are recorded to the mySkyHDi HDD and are available to view for a day. You can watch them as often as you like, and at the end of 24 hours - poof - they are gone. Yes, our readers have complained about that as well. So, sometimes you can record HDCP protected movies, but you have to pay and they have a very short shelf life!  Sky say that’s no different to a rental DVD. It’s just going back to the library - the virtual way.

You can record other movies from Sky - from their Box Office pay-per-view channels, and from the package channels like MGM and Rialto - but in the case of HD movies only to a mySkyHDi. Likewise, Myfreeview|HD can record HD Freeview programmes to its HDD.

The HDCP system is designed to prevent encoded movies being transferred to another HD-DVD recorder. But you’ll still be able to record some movies in SD.  Older classic movies are mostly in SD anyway, so recording them is quite straightforward. But they’re for your own use only. Recent release movies are often protected by a program called Macrovision which blocks SD copying.

The HDCP codes can be set to allow recordings in HD, so local HD content like sport on Sky and news on Freeview could be recorded  and transferred to a Hi-Def recorder - if you were able to buy one.

A last word: the salesperson that sold our member the HDD recorder should have explained the limitations to her before she agreed to buy it. Did they know all of this? Somehow we suspect not.

Read more - see our reports on Freeview digital TVDVD recorders and our Television buying guide. 



Hamish-thumbnail  Hamish Wilson - Testing Manager

Comments

Post a comment

M. 15 January 2009

The digital broadcasting age will challenge many consumers for some time to come.

As explained by Hamish, the reason for the problem is the Digital tuner. The problem however is not a limitation of Freeview system but of the recording device purchased.

The same problem would have been encountered if you tried to record analogue signal and using your normal old VCR without it's own in-build tuner. That is what allows recording independently from what is being viewed on the TV itself.

You may find that the TV you bought on the premise that it is HD ready, isn't quite as easy or ready. My JVC TV has the HDMI input buried in the last TV/Video option after, DVD, VCR, PC etc. and there is no way to change the order jump or quickly jump to HDMI. You also realise the the size of the video changes when you are viewing HD signal.

Dave J 17 January 2009

As far as I can see HD transmissions are only marginally better than what we already have, so why spend all that extra money on it.

Graham A 18 January 2009

MySky HDi is cheap at the price - you get it installed, and it just works ! The $15 per month is infinitely better value than your member got by spending $2,500 on a set up which doesn't do what he wanted !

Graham Abbot 18 January 2009

Ditto! MySky has solved all my recording problems and it's foolproof - simply brilliant!
I have only used my DVD recorder as a player since renting MySky.
The only drawback is that recordings are not physically transportable as in a DVD disc.

Glenda 18 January 2009

I have the same Sony combination. Took a while to set up but am now recording happily. I can record one program while watching another and I can record if the TV is off, no problem.
So I don't understand the comment that "if the TV is off it wont record". Manual record or timer both work fine. Analogue recording is better than VCR but digital would be better. Disappointed about only analogue recording I did some web research and found only analogue can be recorded at present.Digital is coming. Guess I'll have to buy another recorder then. In the meantime I'm enjoying digital "live"

John 18 January 2009

I also have the same TV/Recorder combination. I agree with Glenda, and have had no problem recording when TV is off.

John 30 January 2009

My problem with the digital age is that if you have the Freeview built-in to your TV then you can't have full surround sound, or has someone got a work around. The only digital output for sound is stereo.

Geoffrey Hughes 31 January 2009

You didn't investigate the MySKY HDi very much as you get the option of either $15/month with a $99 setup fee or a one off payment of $599 with no setup fee.

Bill v 6 February 2009

John, My Sony TV has Freeview built in, I get 5.1 surround sound when it is broadcast. (only certain shows on TV3) To achieve this, you need a home theatre system that has an optical input and an optical cable that connects to the optical out on the TV. I help this helps.

Jackie 6 February 2009

I bought a Sony TV with built in Freeview. I tried to connect directly to the sky dish and nothing happened. Do I need something else? I have a three way splitter on my dish as I have 2 sky decoders on it.

Paul Empson 7 February 2009

Jackie, the "built in Freeview" will be for terrestrial, not satellite tv. It needs to be connected to a UHF aerial.
Personally, I recently built a dedicated home theatre PC it has a tuner card with two digital tuners, and can record multiple digital programmes simultaneously using freely available software. Not everyone's cup of tea but it's been fun for me.

Anne 10 February 2009

I have a version of freeview (there is more than one) installed with my older (2000)Sony surround sound TV. I could record at first but now I can't. Not sure what has happened. I have only a Freeview aerial/dish. Has there been a change at the Freeview end. This is disgraceful service and to think that so many of us were sucked into this. And there is no Freeview TV programming in written form exept for TVguide.

Another John 13 February 2009

I think Freeview HD is great, provided the program is actually broadcast in HD, though just getting proper widescreen is an advantage. The Olympic coverage was excellent, better than most HD broadcasts since, but I guess equipment will improve over time.

I was advised to buy an external decoder because it makes recording easier, and am pleased I did. The collection of remotes is getting out of hand though, and most of the family don't know which ones to use. I am looking forward to getting Myfreeview|HD sometime, for proper HD recording. I'd also like surround sound, but it doesn't sound as if much programming provides it yet.

Dani 15 February 2009

hello i bought a jvc tv and in the freeview it says you can record ive recorded something but i dont no how to veiw it can you help ?

Jack 16 February 2009

If you wish to record Freeview in real HD (720p or 1080i) and playback and watch your recorded files in HD even in your PC you need to get the Hyundai AH-3110 Combo HD PVR (Satellite and Terrestrial)however you need to connect the set to an external HDD upto 2000GB. UltraPower Technology in Auckland has imported limited stock to NZ market.

Jonny 16 February 2009

There are plenty of options that will do what you want, they are called PVRs. Freeviewhop has lots of them. I have the top of range TF6000PVR ES it allows me to record any two channels while whatching another one, I can even do picture in picture and watch a forth. Plus it works with all the other satellites as well, i.e. I get BBC world and Australia network from Intelsat 5 etc...


http://www.freeviewshop.co.nz/topfield-tf6000pvr-hdmi-digital-satellite-receiverpvr-p-370.html

Jon 17 February 2009

Beware the Hyundai AH-3110; essentially a good receiver, but it has several issues with recording and playback which have not, as yet, been corrected.

John 21 February 2009

@ the original John & Glenda...

Read the article, it is clearly stated:
"Because the Freeview HD tuner lives in the TV, it’s only possible to record the channel the TV is showing at the time. If the TV is off it won’t record."

So if you want to record freeview, the TV must be turned on. If it is turned off, the HDD recorder will not have an input source...
This has nothing to do with recording from the HDD recorder's internal tuner which, of course, can be done while the TV is off...

Margaret 23 February 2009

I am trying to evaluate the Zinwell Digital Terrestrial Receiver/HighDefinition Digital Television Recorder, which is set up to interact with Freeview, but the Freeview set top section of the Consumer website is too out of date (2007) to deal with receiver-recorders.
My new TV has High Definition Freeview built in, and I note that some at least are having problems with adding Hard Drive recorders because of being confined to the program being watched and needing to have the TV on during recording. But the one Freeview-interactive High Definition Hard Drive recorder I have found so far is also a set top box decoder, and the instruction booklet does not make it clear whether this Zinwell ZMT-640PVR will work OK with a TV that already has a decoder, nor whether it could be connected as well (via a suitable cable) to a small bedroom HD ready TV.

It would be nice too if there was a Freeview interactive High Definition TV Hard Drive recorder that included DVD recording also, so that within the same widget one could extract material from the Hard Drive for longer term keeping, just as one can with a dedicated HD DVD recorder (where HD stands for Hard Drive and not for High Definition!). I did not find that the Consumer report on DVD recorders really helped with such questions, because it did not state whether the recorders are in standard definition, though digital, but I guessed that they were in SD.
It does not help that HD can stand for either High Definition of Hard Drive/Disk, that 'digital' can add yet another 'D', and that there is a tendency on some packaging to give that model code details without spelling out as clearly as I would like the function(s) that the model can actually perform.
There is no recent mention of the Zinwell model above on the Blog: 'Freeview/HDD recorder nightmare', so some answers or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Margaret

Hamish Wilson 25 February 2009

Hi Maragaret,

The Zinwell ZMT-640PVR should be perfectly compatible with High Definition ready televisions as long as the TV sets are connected via HDMI cables and the HDMI connection ports. Instead of watching via the onboard tuner, you'll need to select the HDMI video options on the TV sets.

Regarding DVD recorders - yes, they record in Standard Definition. At present we don't know of any recorder available to consumers that can record in High Definition to a DVD, and suspect it may be a while before such products are available.

Provided there is no content protection (HDCP), you should be able to record High Definition content onto the hard drive of the Zinwell, but if you want to make a DVD, it can only be done via a standard definition DVD recorder.

We agree about the confusion surrounding HD, HDD etc.

Kind regards,

Hamish Wilson
Testing Manager

Gay 1 March 2009

I am currently exploring options to purchase a means of decoding and recording satellite freeview programmes and thought that the Hyundai AH-3110 Combo HD PVR would offer a good choice. I would be interested in further information from Jon about the problems with recording and playback - I am seriously non technical so things do need to be simple.

Mike 6 March 2009

I can confirm Jon's comments re the Hyundai AH-3110. I found it had serious problems with synchronisation between the sound and video on playbacks of recorded programmes, often a discrepancy of up to about 10 seconds. There were also problems with picture stability during live TV; and incompatibility between the receiver and the separate Hard Disk Drive, which frequently caused the receiver's timer to not record programmes at preset times. I was told by the vendor that all these problems were not faults with the Hyundai, they were due to some unexplained electrical intereference in my own home. However, I have now replaced it with a different brand (Zinwell) which shows none of these problems.

Di 10 March 2009

got a tv with built in digi freeview which is fine. trying to tune in freeview recorder system (like sky +) but seems like both freeview signal are battling each other. Can the tune in be done. It's for my old mum so laymans terms please....thanks

Adrian 13 March 2009

I have got the Hyundai AH-3110 and it is great. There are no problems with Audio or Video sync as surgested. HD recording are perfect quality and can be played back on the PC also.

Jack 14 March 2009

I have also the Hyundai AH-3110 since 3months and it records and plays back HD and SD in excellent picture and sound quality without any issue. It is very good value for money.it seems like some consumers buy the problematic expensive Zinwell PVR without reading any feedback about it and place a nice feedback without testing it for a period of time. Mike, wait and see after a month if you are still happy > I even went to Mike's house and spent a considerable time there and he visted me but he could not show me on both occasions any of above mentioned issues regarding the AH-3110. He got his refund and is still complaining without any reason. It is not fair here to place a misleading feedback if you have changed your mind to purchase something else.Still the Hyundai AH-3110 remains the best HD PVR in NZ if not world wide. Cheers

Jack 24 April 2009

For every one please read review about the Hyundai AH-3110 HD Combo PVR: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=8180

lisa 2 May 2009

does anyone know why my new freeview box has tv3 and c4 with sound & image synchronisation problems? all the speech is out of whack with their mouths. WHY?? and what can i do to fix it?

Jenny 7 June 2009

Can someone please tell me if you can still record using a VCR recorder when you have a Freeview HD Digital Terrestrial Receiver, or do our old VCRs now become obsolete thus requiring me to purchure a new recorder compatiable with freeview

Steve Varley 19 June 2009

Hi Jenny We have a Sony Bravia TV with built in freeview tuner. We haven't got round to buying HDD recorder yet so continue to record using our old vcr - you just record the analogue signals for TV1, TV2 etc. Connect in the old way via RF out from TV and into the vcr. Quality not as good as the digital transmission of course but OK.

Bob Latimer 28 October 2009

I have had a Zinwell ZMT-640PVR for about 10 months and have been pretty happy with it.

However, it has now started to pause when playing a recorded program. The picture freezes and the sound stops for 2-3 seconds and then it "jumps ahead" and restarts.

The other thing it has started doing is, when fast-forwarding when watching a recorded program, sometimes the picture is very pixelated and I can't tell when the adverts end.

There are instructions in the manual for reformatting the hard drive and I'm tempted to try that.

Anyone else have experience with this?

Jayne Perry 19 November 2009

I am onto my 2nd Zinwell ZMT-640PVR now and am now unsure what to do.

The first one we had about 10mths and it started to pixelate. Over the next few weeks this got worse and also playing back recorded stuff, there has been an issue with playing after pausing: speech lagging behind picture.

Upon enquiring from the store I bought it from, I was put onto a place that fixes them. They didn't even look at it but gave us a new one on the spot! This surprised me. Is there a known fault with these?

We have had our new one going 4 days and guess what is happening tonight? Pikelating! What to do now?
Are these faulty?

Dave 18 December 2009

There may be issues with the Hyundai AH 3110 and early HDMI TVs. My 4 year old JVC TV loses audio for a few seconds every few minutes and less frequently defaults to blue screen losing picture as well, forcing a re-boot of the TV to regain the programme. The people at JVC suggested the Hyundai may not be set up for early HDCP protocols.

Ainslie 5 January 2010

I would like help with re-setting our HD TV as we have the freeview boxes which do not seem to work. I want to watch free to air from another TV. Can you advise a reputable technician please for the central Auckland area. Thanks.

David H 30 January 2010

Re: "Freeview has announced a HDD Digital TV Recorder (DTR) called Myfreeview|HD - available in stores since December 11"..... it seems to be a web page rather than a product....http://www.freeviewnz.tv/myfreeview/.

Is this selection of products what is meant by MyFreeview?......http://www.freeviewnz.tv/products/listing/all/digital_television_recorders

Thank you

Bob Latimer 14 April 2010

I am now on my third Zinwell ZMT-640PVR. All three units have (usually about twice in the playback of a one hour programme) gone to a black screen for a couple of seconds or a frozen picture for a couple of seconds.

The technician at Next Electronics (who provided the two replacements) has suggested I ask the retailer (Dick Smith) for a refund under the Consumer Guarantees Act.

I'm going to try that and buy a Magic instead.

Alberto 10 May 2010

Mate, You need a technician with a satellite meter, could be an issue with LNB's or the cable.

Bob Latimer 30 July 2010

It had nothing to do with the signal.

I got my refund from Dick Smith (after a bit of a struggle) and bought a Magic. Guess what? No more playback problems!

Post a comment

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.