Current Affairs
30 April 2009Squaring up to Dell
We recently received the outcome of a Disputes Tribunal hearing from a Consumer member, who stuck to his guns by forcing computer manufacturer Dell to pay for repair costs and new parts for his computer. Dell initially refused to service the computer as it was out of warranty, but the Consumer Guarantees Act (CGA) came up trumps.
Here’s how: Our member claimed $902.25 from Dell for the cost of repairs to a Dell computer he bought in 2005. The DVD drive and power supply failed after only a year and the motherboard went the same way after three years.
Dell had refused to repair the computer as it was out of its standard warranty period. The member had the computer fixed elsewhere and went to the Disputes Tribunal seeking compensation.
The member hadn’t bought a cheap computer as he intended it to last him up to a decade. He referred to a Consumer report that said a computer should last for five years. This is in keeping with what the CGA says about the acceptable quality and lifetime of products.
A further twist is that Dell uses proprietary computer parts, meaning many (cheaper) industry standard parts are not compatible. Dell also refuses to directly sell replacement parts, forcing users to take their computer for diagnosis, negotiate a price and then have the parts shipped to a registered repairer. This is a huge hassle for consumers.
The result was the computer sold to our member failed the guarantee of acceptable quality – significant parts of it stopped working well before they should have. Our member was awarded the $902.25.
It’s really encouraging to see this result – but at the same time it’s depressing how much time and effort had to be expended to get a fair result out of a large company. Has anyone else had a similar experience? I’d be hugely surprised if this sort of problem was limited to Dell …
Updated: Dells response
Hi Tristan,
Thanks again for contacting Dell and for giving us the opportunity to comment.
In this case, we reimbursed [the Consumer member] for the expenses he incurred to repair his computer because the expenses were incurred directly by him.
Separately, the court did not make any orders about a five-year warranty and to the best of our knowledge there is no such requirement to do so under the Consumer Guarantees Act.
We apologise for any inconvenience incurred.
Kind regards,
Marty Filipowski
Dell Corporate Communications
Read more – see our reports on the Consumer Guarantees Act and Appliance life expectancy.
Tristan Clark - Technical Writer
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Comments
Yes, I can tell you a long story about an electric lawnmower that failed and couldn't be repaired - five months to get a full refund.
I had owned the mower for 15 months and it was out of warranty.
Sadly, there are many retailers who do not understand the Consumer Guarantees Act.
Hi Still with Dell. They had some nice looking big monitors for sale through the internet. I tried to find out whether there were speakers built in, first rang one number and got Australia so they gave me the NZ number and guess what it was answered in the Philipines and I got no joy as didn't have a job number so flagged the whole ides. Dell is not easy to cotact and won't in the future!!
It saddens me that DELL has this approach as from a home and Corporate user I have actively promoted DELL as being a Service otrientated company ...... maybe I'm wrong and in doing so those that have bought DELL under my recommendation will be stung ... and badly. A note to DELL, 'a lost sale is a lost sale' no matter how big you are.
I have been a corporate user of Dell for many years, Corporate because of Group buying policy last year out of a shipment of 18 PC,s 4 did not work at all on delivery, two worked after service by a Dell technician. This percetage of failure is reflective of all purchases.
My experience of Dell is 'traumatic'. Laptop ceased working 1 month out of warrenty and took weeks to get action to repair at my cost. Wrote to the NZ Shortland St address with no response. Am going to look at retorspectve claim throught the Disputes Tribunal after reading this. Does anyone have NZ contact details for Dell?
In a previous life I was a long-time corporate user of Dell, so based on a reasonably good history (when they had a NZ presence !!) I recently purchased a laptop via their website. Four weeks later (!!), it arrived, after a few phone calls to the 0800 numbers. I found that if you use the touch-tone option that selects you are a 500+ corporate user, that's about the only way to can get to speak with anybody with any authority. Let's hope my laptop goes the distance..!!
I am the person who won this case against Dell. The written decision from the Disputes Tribunal clearly states that it is reasonable to expect a computer to last 5 years. It also states that if Dell refuse to repair and the case goes to the disputes tribunal, then the consumer can claim compensation from Dell for their time and trouble. Anyone wanting a PDF copy of the decision can email me at kiwikevin@windowslive.com
I am shocked - Dell telling anything but the truth.
Well , it does go with the history of Dell and what they have done in USA .
People who have replaced a faulty PSU with a standard PC
unit, found that the motherboard fried.
The PSUs were not made to PC stanard , and a lot of people have got caught.
I stay well clear of Dell.
I'm have a disputes tribunal hearing on Monday with Sony. My PlayStation 3 broke down after 21 months, outside of the warranty period.
It's encouraging to hear that 5 years is a reasonable time for a computer to last.
I'm going to claim for my time and trouble as well, as this whole thing's been a complete pain. Sony have been less that professional to deal with.
I'll post what happens.
PS3 just broken after 22 months. I'm just writing the letter to SONY asking for them to fix the problem. Not expecting much from them after the phone call to their service centre. I'll be very interested in the out come of your tribunal.
I won the case! Both Sony and EB Games have been ordered to jointly refund me the repair cost of $375.
What won it for me was the excellent article from Consumer magazine:
They tried to argue that the PS3 wasn't classified as a computer. I said it should be more robust due to hard treatment from children and that it's also a DVD player (also in the article) which has an even longer life expectancy.
I originally wrote to Sony's complaints dept and followed up with 2 emails, but never heard from them until they got notice of the disputes hearing. I'd try them first though.
You're more than welcome to reference my case as an example of a similar case if it comes to that.
I'll write some advice on my blog and PS3 forums so other people don't need to spend a lot of time preparing a disputes case like I did. I'll post a link here when that's done.
While I have heard & read a lot of people's bad experience's of Dell, I have only had good ones! 3 laptops over several years. No problem upgrading the RAM for the laptop bought at the Warehouse, albeit talking to someone in the Phillipines; arrived within days AND they walked me through the installation - very easy. My son's laptop DVD packed up within a year or so & again was replaced in days without cost to us & was easy for us to install!
@Jason: That's really good to hear! Consoles are always breaking well before they should, good on you for making Sony/EB front up to faulty products.
I've put details about my dispute with Sony on my blog, if anyone is going to do a similar thing:
http://we-fearless-ones.blogspot.com/2009/05/playstation-3-durability-courts-ruling.html
Ask any questions there since I'm unlikely to check this blog very often.
Jason
Great result, look forward to your link.
I have so far bought 3 laptops from Dell. One of them required a keyboard to be replaced within 1 year, but in my experience the technical support provided by Dell is far superior to any you get from other computer suppliers in New Zealand. Moreover, both the build quality and the availability of drivers and support documentation via the Internet are excellent. Also, whether I am talking to someone in Auckland or the Phillipines is irrelevant; it is their competence at solving problems that is important. I strongly recommend Dell to everyone who doesn't suffer from xenophobia.
I've supported hundreds of Dell computers over many years both as a corporate and personal user. They are good when a computer is under warranty although you have to know how to work their support system to get speedy service. I.e If you don't get someone on the phone who speaks good english or you loose confidence in, just make an excuse to hang up and call again to speak to someone else. And if worse comes to worse just lie until they agree to send out a technician. (you pay for the support so why not use it). They are all contractors and get paid regardless so don't care. The Dell support machine is a beast but you can use that to your advantage.
The one thing that sets them above the rest is they will send their technicians to your door and you can be back up and running within a day or two.
I've never experienced any proprietary components in their computers, all generic replacement/upgrade parts have always worked for me. I've never heard about this with Dells before.
I disagree that a computer should last at least 5 years. In my experience most last 3 to 5 years (across all brands) for desktops and up to 3 years for laptops. Technology is such that with decreasing prices and increasing hardware technology, these are reasonable timeframes.
If you've been running the same computer for 5 years you should really be considering a new one just for productivity reasons alone, let alone what state you're Windows installation would be in after that amount of time.
Mac's are a different story, you should reasonability expect one to last at least 5 years, even a laptap.
Hey All,
I have got a 50" Sony Grand Wega Projection TV, 3.5 years old. It stared getting a large Blue streak on it a few months ago and now blue spots all over it getting worse by the day, gonna head to Sony shortly over this. Any idea how long this should be covered for, warrenty expired, but a 5K TV should last a bit longer than that.
Have seen a lot of oversea posts on this, but keen to hear of any NZ stories similar,
Cheers
Yes Dell has certainly dropped the ball as far as customer service is concearned, For once it would be great to dial an 0800 number and get someone from the county you are calling from and that can actually answer your qestion, Dell has the amazing ability to have 3 different sales or tech people giving 3 dirrerent answers, this is also true of Dell UK, Ca-mon Dell keep phone support in the country that it is intended for. The general public are sick of offshore call centres !!!!!!!!, having said that Dell are not th only guilty ones here.
Hey Martin. have tried kiwikevin@windowslive.com and it was returned undelivered. I would love to read a copy of the tribunal report.
The Dell Dishonesty starts when the first voice that answers an 0800 call is "european" (and probably stays like that while you're buying a machine) , and from then on you're lost in Asia.
I would have thought this misrepresentation as to the nature of Dell would in itself have brought legal attention.
However my son's laptop AC adapter has failed just over a year old and now using the information on this web page we intend to pursue them in the Disputes Tribunal. It's just not good enough.
Hey Martin,
I have a similar problem with my dell laptop, who's motherbord has died after 15 months. Coudl i please read a copy of the tribunal report? i tried kiwikevin@windowslive.com, and it returned undelievered. Cheers
Looking at buying a laptop a friend send me this email. I however already made up my mind not to go with Dell as it is not serviced in New Zealand. Now of course I am totally convinced not to buy a Dell
Thanks
Dell are bad for this they have no NZ representation so are not answerable to NZ law. I would not buy from DELL.
I am perusing them at present regarding a customers laptop that has failed after 16 months, I have been fobbed off with " out of 1 year warranty" 3 times and have quoted them the CGA. I have contacted the commerce commission and they say " due to them being off shore the CGA may not apply" The ministry for consumer affairs said they should be held liable. I think Government needs to introduce legislation so that these companies have to have representation in NZ or so they are accountable or they can not trade.I am on the phone to them at present so will let you know how it goes.
I had the same problem With HP and an HP laptop (same time scale till failure)but stuck to my guns and finally got hold of someone in NZ who stated " Due to HP having NZ representation HP is accountable" and they replaced the laptop mainboard.
HP NZ Contacts:
-Antara:APJ_ACTIVE_MAIL@hp.com
-consumernotebooks@hp.com
Merell of story : "only buy from companies with NZ representation based in NZ! " i will never buy a Dell and will not advise customers to buy Dell.
Failure !!!!!!
Dell are stating : sorry out of 1 year warranty again
-Never Buy Dell !!
This is not over.............
Communications are now being ignored by dell regarding the matter.
Sent an email to micheal@dell.com (DELL CEO) but the chances of a response are probably the same as a snowballs survival in Hell lol.
Oh well will contact Fairgo and Our local MP next.. I am determined for a resolution in this as it effects all kiwi's
keep you posted
Success !!!
Dell are coming to the party ! Morrell of the story keep beating on their door my email to dell support:
Hi There,
I would like to know if dell will repair this laptop in accordance with the New Zealand Consumer guarantees act 1993. The laptop has breached the terms of this act as it does not fit the following criteria:
;Guarantee of acceptable quality- Goods must be= :fit for the purpose they are made for and :durable - last for a reasonable time ( a laptops life expectancy is around 5 years)
If Dell do not accept responsibility for this product the following action will be taken:
-We will contact our local member of parliament regarding a legislation change.
-The consumer watchdog program fair go will be contacted
-The commerce commission will be contacted with all details of this case
-The way Dell does business to avoid answering to New Zealand law by advertising in New Zealand and basing itself off shore will be publicised widely
-We will seek compensation through the disputes tribunal
Thank you for your time.
Regards
Dells responce to my email:
Dear Benjamin,
Good day to you.
Please be informed that I have consulted with my management and the approval has been granted to support this issue. Please be informed that we are able to provide support for this time only and you might need to extend the warranty or pay for the cost if there is any other issue occur in future.
Please be assured that proper arrangement has been made for a technician to be on site to help you inspect the system and to get it fix. As per warranty, the service time would be on Monday -Friday from 9am - 6pm. You will be receiving a call from our technician within the next working day to schedule for an appointment and to have the system fixed. Please feel free to drop me an email if you do not receive any response from the respective department by the second business day. However, this is subject to part(s) availability.
If you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
For your reference, this is your case number: xxxxx
Have a nice day.
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